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	<title>Comments on: Maybe We Should Have Elected a White President After All</title>
	<atom:link href="http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/</link>
	<description>We don&#039;t need no stinking subtitle</description>
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		<title>By: Greg Laden</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-19260</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Laden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 05:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-19260</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say that race was  the only factor.  I said everyone was being racist.  You are correct in that the teabaggers are very capable of being assholes outside the context of racism.  Sexism works too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say that race was  the only factor.  I said everyone was being racist.  You are correct in that the teabaggers are very capable of being assholes outside the context of racism.  Sexism works too!</p>
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		<title>By: Kirth Gersen</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-19248</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirth Gersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-19248</guid>
		<description>Do I think there&#039;s a component of racism in some of this? Hell, yes. Do I think it&#039;s the only element, or even the primary one? No.

Thinking scientifically, we have an independent variable (race), and a dependent variable (right-wing vitriol and obstructionism). We need to control our variable, so let&#039;s pick two subjects (of different race) who are nonetheless similar in terms of party and prominence.

So, is the hatred, vitriol, and obstruction levied in Nancy Pelosi&#039;s direction not at all comparable to the abuse that Obama gets? I&#039;d say it&#039;s almost as bad, in some cases worse. Of course, Pelosi arguably deserves a lot of it, but that shouldn&#039;t enter the equation if, in your estimation, the right-wingers aren&#039;t rational to begin with, and are acting primarily out of racism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I think there&#8217;s a component of racism in some of this? Hell, yes. Do I think it&#8217;s the only element, or even the primary one? No.</p>
<p>Thinking scientifically, we have an independent variable (race), and a dependent variable (right-wing vitriol and obstructionism). We need to control our variable, so let&#8217;s pick two subjects (of different race) who are nonetheless similar in terms of party and prominence.</p>
<p>So, is the hatred, vitriol, and obstruction levied in Nancy Pelosi&#8217;s direction not at all comparable to the abuse that Obama gets? I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s almost as bad, in some cases worse. Of course, Pelosi arguably deserves a lot of it, but that shouldn&#8217;t enter the equation if, in your estimation, the right-wingers aren&#8217;t rational to begin with, and are acting primarily out of racism.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Laden</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-18959</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Laden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 15:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-18959</guid>
		<description>In some ways, it might be worse with Clinton, given her prior involvement in health care.  But my strong suspicion is that she would have seen her second stab at it as a challenge, and risen to it. 

In the end, of course, Obama did pretty well.  And this post is not about him or about him being president.  It is about the ubiquitous racist attitude in the teaparty and libertarian movements.  And I agree with you that racism and sexism are very different things.

I utterly disagree what an emasculating insult is a feminizing insult. To assume that link is ... well, it is doing exactly what you were suggesting I was doing.  But I can see where someone might think that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In some ways, it might be worse with Clinton, given her prior involvement in health care.  But my strong suspicion is that she would have seen her second stab at it as a challenge, and risen to it. </p>
<p>In the end, of course, Obama did pretty well.  And this post is not about him or about him being president.  It is about the ubiquitous racist attitude in the teaparty and libertarian movements.  And I agree with you that racism and sexism are very different things.</p>
<p>I utterly disagree what an emasculating insult is a feminizing insult. To assume that link is &#8230; well, it is doing exactly what you were suggesting I was doing.  But I can see where someone might think that.</p>
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		<title>By: plum grenville</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-18947</link>
		<dc:creator>plum grenville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 05:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-18947</guid>
		<description>&quot;the strutting libertarians with their strap-ons (because they don’t have real ones)&quot;

Greg, you do realize don&#039;t you that insulting (or denying) somebody&#039;s manhood is sexist? Why, oh why, is the ultimate insult to a man telling him that he&#039;s like a woman? Think about the level of contempt for women that implies. It&#039;s right up there with that Jewish prayer which says, Thank you God for not making me a woman. 

I would also be interested in knowing why you think the situation would be completely different if Hillary Clinton was the president pushing for health care reform. Racism and sexism are not  identical, but they&#039;re both ugly and irrational - and useful to manipulators of public opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the strutting libertarians with their strap-ons (because they don’t have real ones)&#8221;</p>
<p>Greg, you do realize don&#8217;t you that insulting (or denying) somebody&#8217;s manhood is sexist? Why, oh why, is the ultimate insult to a man telling him that he&#8217;s like a woman? Think about the level of contempt for women that implies. It&#8217;s right up there with that Jewish prayer which says, Thank you God for not making me a woman. </p>
<p>I would also be interested in knowing why you think the situation would be completely different if Hillary Clinton was the president pushing for health care reform. Racism and sexism are not  identical, but they&#8217;re both ugly and irrational &#8211; and useful to manipulators of public opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Monado</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-18784</link>
		<dc:creator>Monado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 19:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-18784</guid>
		<description>If you look at pictures of &lt;a href=&quot;http://moronswithsigns.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;tea-bag parties&lt;/a&gt;, you&#039;ll see that everyone visible is a paleface.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at pictures of <a href="http://moronswithsigns.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">tea-bag parties</a>, you&#8217;ll see that everyone visible is a paleface.</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-18517</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 02:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-18517</guid>
		<description>Greg, let&#039;s start drawing distinctions among that &quot;anti-Obama crowd&quot;, because not all of them were always &quot;anti-Obama&quot;. You may recall Obama had very high popularity polls on taking office, which later sank. Were those who cheered him on, earlier, racists then?

A lot of them Hoped (and Believed) for Change because Obama hit very hard on the Social Justice buttons, against what the Bush Administration was doing in Iraq (the 16 months are up in which he promised to bring troops home), against torture, against imprisonment without trial. And now Obama has gotten the Supreme Court to approve his holding prisoners in Bagram beyond the reach of the Constitution; and he has a program to assassinate US citizens away from any battlefield without any trial, on his orders alone. Was this what we voted for? Was this what Obama campaigned for?

Then there are the hard-core, always-anti-Obama, McCain/Palin voters; call them Republican or Tea Party or Right Wing or whatever you like, they were never going to vote for a Democrat of *any* color, anyway. Didn&#039;t vote for Kerry in 2004, or any previous white Democrat; so how is it racist that they didn&#039;t vote for a black Democrat, either? What they are is *partisan*.

To be very clear here: I&#039;m utterly opposed to the GOP and its Tea Party bulldog. I think letting them back into power would be catastrophic for America and the world. But right now Obama and the Democratic Party are only somewhat better by comparison, which really irks me as a lifelong Democratic voter to say -- they should be shining examples, and they are not -- they have shamefully gone along with authorizing the abuses of the Bush Administration, which strictly speaking should make them all (along with their GOP colleagues) liable to prosecution at War Crimes Trials.

I wanted better; I expected better; and I thought I was voting for better. I didn&#039;t get it. That doesn&#039;t make me &quot;anti-Obama&quot; now. Not while all the alternatives are still worse. But I am indeed &quot;anti&quot; some of his policies. Aren&#039;t you? Assassination, at least?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, let&#8217;s start drawing distinctions among that &#8220;anti-Obama crowd&#8221;, because not all of them were always &#8220;anti-Obama&#8221;. You may recall Obama had very high popularity polls on taking office, which later sank. Were those who cheered him on, earlier, racists then?</p>
<p>A lot of them Hoped (and Believed) for Change because Obama hit very hard on the Social Justice buttons, against what the Bush Administration was doing in Iraq (the 16 months are up in which he promised to bring troops home), against torture, against imprisonment without trial. And now Obama has gotten the Supreme Court to approve his holding prisoners in Bagram beyond the reach of the Constitution; and he has a program to assassinate US citizens away from any battlefield without any trial, on his orders alone. Was this what we voted for? Was this what Obama campaigned for?</p>
<p>Then there are the hard-core, always-anti-Obama, McCain/Palin voters; call them Republican or Tea Party or Right Wing or whatever you like, they were never going to vote for a Democrat of *any* color, anyway. Didn&#8217;t vote for Kerry in 2004, or any previous white Democrat; so how is it racist that they didn&#8217;t vote for a black Democrat, either? What they are is *partisan*.</p>
<p>To be very clear here: I&#8217;m utterly opposed to the GOP and its Tea Party bulldog. I think letting them back into power would be catastrophic for America and the world. But right now Obama and the Democratic Party are only somewhat better by comparison, which really irks me as a lifelong Democratic voter to say &#8212; they should be shining examples, and they are not &#8212; they have shamefully gone along with authorizing the abuses of the Bush Administration, which strictly speaking should make them all (along with their GOP colleagues) liable to prosecution at War Crimes Trials.</p>
<p>I wanted better; I expected better; and I thought I was voting for better. I didn&#8217;t get it. That doesn&#8217;t make me &#8220;anti-Obama&#8221; now. Not while all the alternatives are still worse. But I am indeed &#8220;anti&#8221; some of his policies. Aren&#8217;t you? Assassination, at least?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Laden</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-18512</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Laden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 21:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-18512</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Raven, but I&#039;m not going to buy into the watering down of a general recognition of racism in the teaparty crowd and much of the anti-obama crown in general.  You shouldn&#039;t either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Raven, but I&#8217;m not going to buy into the watering down of a general recognition of racism in the teaparty crowd and much of the anti-obama crown in general.  You shouldn&#8217;t either.</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-18489</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 06:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-18489</guid>
		<description>Good grief, Greg @ 64, don&#039;t you think you&#039;ve been painting-with-a-broad-brush yourself, from the top of this thread?

And I&#039;m asking that as an Obama voter and volunteer.

Not everyone who disagrees with you has base motives for doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief, Greg @ 64, don&#8217;t you think you&#8217;ve been painting-with-a-broad-brush yourself, from the top of this thread?</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m asking that as an Obama voter and volunteer.</p>
<p>Not everyone who disagrees with you has base motives for doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Laden</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-12846</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Laden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-12846</guid>
		<description>Yahzi: You would benefit from reading all the words instead of whatever it is you are doing, before painting someone with your broad brush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yahzi: You would benefit from reading all the words instead of whatever it is you are doing, before painting someone with your broad brush.</p>
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		<title>By: Yahzi</title>
		<link>http://quichemoraine.com/2009/08/maybe-we-should-have-elected-a-white-president-after-all/#comment-12780</link>
		<dc:creator>Yahzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quichemoraine.com/?p=1540#comment-12780</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not racism, Greg, it&#039;s selfishness. And oddly, you exhibit your fair share of it here.

People (specifically liberals) aren&#039;t against health care because they are racist. They are against it because they don&#039;t want to pay for it. All those middle class people aren&#039;t racists, they&#039;re just indifferent to the suffering of others. All they want is their TV and their car and to pay as little for it as possible.

Which matches you: you want great change and political reform, but only if it&#039;s cheap. If it&#039;s hard and expensive and takes a long time, then you&#039;re going to throw in the towel just like all those other people.

Oppression is not so much an overt effort by the minority as it is a lack of effort from the majority. Complaining that other people are only interested in what profits them is absurd, since you&#039;re trying to change their behavior to your profit. Instead, let&#039;s focus on explaining to people how our positions profit both sides. It&#039;s the same way you save the rain forest; not by appealing to people&#039;s nobility, but by showing how environmentalism is actually more profitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not racism, Greg, it&#8217;s selfishness. And oddly, you exhibit your fair share of it here.</p>
<p>People (specifically liberals) aren&#8217;t against health care because they are racist. They are against it because they don&#8217;t want to pay for it. All those middle class people aren&#8217;t racists, they&#8217;re just indifferent to the suffering of others. All they want is their TV and their car and to pay as little for it as possible.</p>
<p>Which matches you: you want great change and political reform, but only if it&#8217;s cheap. If it&#8217;s hard and expensive and takes a long time, then you&#8217;re going to throw in the towel just like all those other people.</p>
<p>Oppression is not so much an overt effort by the minority as it is a lack of effort from the majority. Complaining that other people are only interested in what profits them is absurd, since you&#8217;re trying to change their behavior to your profit. Instead, let&#8217;s focus on explaining to people how our positions profit both sides. It&#8217;s the same way you save the rain forest; not by appealing to people&#8217;s nobility, but by showing how environmentalism is actually more profitable.</p>
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